In this episode, I interview Dr. Robert Romanyshyn. Robert’s work on wounded research and the embodied experience of technology are fundamental references for the school of empathic journalism. So… This conversations serves as a massive milestone in the development of the school.
Our conversation weaves together the Greek myth of Orpheus, poetic epistemology, Rainer Maria Rilke, Jungian depth psychology, and the critical idea of the “wounded researcher.”
Dr. Robert explains how genuine objectivity emerges only when we become aware of our personal biases and unconscious drives, rather than denying them.
We also delve into why slowness, stillness, and surrender can open us to deeper truths—both in everyday life and in fields like therapy, journalism, and scholarship. Along the way, you’ll hear reflections on love and hate, the mystery of transference, and how nature can awaken us to the soul’s unspoken callings.
Importantly, Robert generously gifted us a new archetypal equation (the 5 S’s) to ground our journalism in hesitation and slowness.
Slowness invites
stillness allows
silence welcomes
surrender
that opens to
Serenity.
Thanks Robert!
Episode Highlights
Mythic Resonance of Orpheus
Dr. Robert shares why Orpheus—famed for losing Eurydice a second time—illustrates the limits of willpower and the urgency of listening to soul.
Explores Rilke’s retelling, focusing on the tragic moment Orpheus turns around in doubt, foreshadowing the human dilemma of pride vs. humility.
The Wounded Researcher
Brian and Robert discuss how personal hurts, dreams, and “unfinished business” fuel our curiosities. Far from a liability, these “wounds” can deepen our engagement if we face them consciously.
Examples from therapy and journalism show how acknowledging bias and transference can lead to more profound insights than simple “neutrality.”
Slowness, Stillness & Surrender
Robert elaborates on his “five S’s”—including silence and serenity—emphasizing how pausing invites us into a more authentic presence.
Anecdotes of sitting in gardens, listening to birds, and “becoming dawn” highlight the power of nature’s rhythms to restore perspective.
Transference Beyond the Clinic
Traditionally a psychoanalytic idea, transference can also describe how a journalist or scholar projects hopes/fears onto a chosen topic.
Recognizing these hidden emotional stakes helps avoid sensationalism or shallow reporting—enabling “deeper subjectivity” that paradoxically supports genuine objectivity.
Love, Hate & Creative Transformation
Brian recounts a controversial interview with supposed “satanic pedophiles,” revealing a more complex human story behind the inflammatory label.
Dr. Robert reflects on hatred as a possible projection of our own unacknowledged longings, and how “constructive anger” (or sublimation) can fuel creative, rather than destructive, work.
Ethics as Aesthetic Belonging
Drawing on etymology, Robert connects ethics to a sense of “fitting into one’s habitat”—much like animals find their burrow.
Ethical clarity, he argues, is a felt alignment with place, person, and moment; it arises from embodied presence, not abstract codes alone.
Nature as Teacher
From Antarctica’s sublime landscapes to a morning sunrise, Dr. Robert recounts moments of being “dawned upon” and realizing our embeddedness in the natural world.
Such encounters can dissolve the ego’s illusions of control, fostering reverence and humility—qualities that mirror mythic storytelling and soulful inquiry.
Key Concepts & Themes
1. Orpheus Myth & Narcissism
Definition:
A Greek myth about the gifted musician Orpheus, who descends into the underworld to save Eurydice but fails due to his own doubt and pride.
Episode Context:
Robert uses this story to highlight our tendency to rely on will alone, missing the soul-level surrender needed for true transformation.
2. Wounded Researcher
Definition:
A framework suggesting that every researcher—or any seeker of knowledge—carries personal “wounds” that shape their inquiries. Far from invalidating our work, these hidden motivations can become a source of depth and authenticity.
Episode Context:
Brian and Robert note how unconscious desires and projections often “choose” our topics for us, leading to richer studies if we dare admit it.
3. Transference in Research
Definition:
A psychoanalytic term describing how we project unresolved emotional patterns onto an external figure (originally, a therapist). In research or journalism, it means unconsciously transferring personal hopes, fears, or fantasies onto a subject or interviewee.
Episode Context:
Acknowledging transference in writing, reporting, or scholarship can deepen our understanding and prevent one-sided or reactive biases.
4. Slowness, Stillness, Silence, Surrender, and Serenity. (Five S’s)
Definition:
Robert’s expanded view of “hesitation,” involving Slowness, Stillness, Silence, Surrender, and Serenity. These states invite receptivity to experiences beyond the ego’s compulsive control.
Episode Context:
By deliberately slowing down—whether walking, meditating, or journaling—we can sense subtler dimensions of ourselves and the world. Such hesitation guards against superficial “fast” solutions.
5. Love, Hate & Constructive Anger
Definition:
A recognition that love and hate are often two sides of deep engagement. Hatred can be a projection of unconscious motives, while “constructive anger” can lead to creative action if approached with honesty.
Episode Context:
Brian’s case study of interviewing people labeled as “satanic pedophiles” shows how peeling back layers of fear and sensationalism reveals more nuanced human stories beneath polarizing labels.
6. Ethics as Embodied Belonging
Definition:
A perspective on ethics that sees it as a form of “aesthetic fitting”—finding the right habitat or place for oneself, being “where you’re supposed to be.”
Episode Context:
Echoing an ecological view, Robert contends that we often know the ethical path by sensing alignment between our body, environment, and the demands of the moment.
7. Nature as Teacher & Becoming Dawn
Definition:
Moments when we recognize ourselves in nature’s unfolding—e.g., “becoming dawn” rather than just observing it—can undo the illusion of human separateness or control.
Episode Context:
Robert describes powerful experiences of stillness in gardens or witnessing the Antarctic, where the ego yields to a more expansive, soulful awareness.
Reflections & Takeaways
Objectivity is Born from Deep Subjectivity: True neutrality emerges after acknowledging the unconscious forces shaping our interests.
Soulful Inquiry: Whether in therapy, journalism, or academic research, it helps to see your project as a living “other” with whom you’re in relationship.
Hesitation & Pause: The five S’s of Slowness, Stillness, Silence, Surrender, and Serenity ground us in phenomena we might otherwise race past.
Beauty & Tragedy: Myths like Orpheus remind us that our greatest gifts can also be our downfall when pride eclipses humility.
Call to Action (CTA)
Experiment with “Hesitation Rituals”: Take one everyday task—like walking, journaling, or even washing dishes—and slow it down. Notice if new feelings, memories, or insights surface.
Identify Your “Wound” or Bias: In your current project (be it research, art, or a personal pursuit), ask: What drew me here? Is there an unresolved story, dream, or longing fueling my interest?
Further Exploration:
Robert’s Writings: Dive into his reflections on the “wounded researcher,” ethics as aesthetic belonging, and how depth psychology informs everyday life.
Nature Journaling: Spend time in a garden or park. Instead of labeling flowers or birds, let yourself sense the “vibe” of the place. Notice shifts in mood or perspective.
Listen & Subscribe
As Dr. Robert suggests, life’s richest insights often arrive when we relinquish rigid control. Like Orpheus, we can’t simply force our way into new knowledge or resurrect what’s lost. Instead, by slowing down, honoring hidden longings, and making space for nature’s subtle music, we might just find ourselves becoming the dawn—and in that becoming, realize an intimate belonging that neither pride nor fear can undo.
Enjoy the episode, and remember to hesitate—deliberately!
Share this post